une interview qui aneantit le tir de barrage des negationnistes burundais
BURUNDI INFORMATION (le 27 mai 2011). La commémoration au mois d'avril dernier du génocide antitutsi de 1972 a suscité un réveil des négationnistes burundais du monde entier. Ces derniers alternent contre-vérités et calomnies. Il y a quelques jours, nous vous avons montré un écrit mensonger qui visait le Secrétaire de l’Antenne Régionale de Toronto d'AC GENOCIDE CANADA. Il est intéressant de noter qu'au moment où Nzeyimana Frédéric , procédant par accusation en mirroir, tentait de faire endosser à Emmanuel Nkurunziza la dissémination de la haine ethnique, la BBC, elle, tendait le micro à cet acteur de la lutte contre le mal absolu pour qu’il explique en détails ces vérités gênantes dont le régime CNDD-FDD et ses supporteurs veulent taire par tous les moyens.
Dans cette interview menée en kirundi et diffusée le 14 mai 2011, Emmanuel Nkurunziza a parlé :
- de l’occultation du génocide contre les tutsi du Burundi,
- des auteurs du génocide de 1972 ( à savoir, l’organisation UBU -- Umugambwe w’Abakozi b’Uburundi -- ou Parti des Travailleurs du Burundi),
- de la persistance de l’idéologie et des symboles de l’UBU dans les formations FRODEBU, FROLINA, PALIPE AGAKIZA et RPB.
L’entretien a également porté sur l’exploitation partisane du fameux Rapport Whitaker , le cheval de bataille des négationnistes favorables aux génocidaires burundais. Il s'est clôturé par un appel à la culture de la vérité ainsi qu'au rejet des globalisations. En effet, les criminels burundais et leurs complices ont cette malheureuse habitude de faire croire que c'est toute une ethnie qui est responsable du génocide, alors que les auteurs des crimes sont des individus et des organisations. Comme Emmanuel Nkurunziza le rappelle si bien, c’est cette vérité qu’il faut oser dire si on veut remettre le Burundi sur la voie du droit.
CI- APRES LA TRANSCRIPTION DE L’INTERVIEW
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Mwaramutse amahoro bakunzi b’ikiganiro imvo n’imvano.
Ngo aho imfura zisezeraniye ni ho zihurira. Twabemereye ko kuri uyu wa gatandatu tuzabagezaho ikiganiro gikubiyemwo ibitekerezo ku kiganiro twabateguriye ubwo mu Brundi bibukaga ubwicanyi ndengakamere bwo mu mwaka w’1972. Muri ico kiganiro, harimwo Segatwa Fabien, umunyamategeko, uvuga ko ubwo bwicanyi bwari ihonyabwoko ry’abahutu; Evariste Ngayimpenda wemera ko ryari ihonyabwoko ry’abatutsi; na Aloys Batungwanayo, umunyambanga mukuru w’ishirahamwe rivuga ko riharanira kumenya ukuri ku vyabaye, gushingurana icubahiro abahitanywe n’ubwo bwicanyi, no guha buri murundi uburenganzira bwo kwibuka.
Hari abatwandikiye bamaze kwumva impaka zari hagati y’abatumire bacu babeshyuza cangwa bashigikira ivyavuzwe, ndetse banatanga amateka masha adafise aho yanditse kuri ubwo bwicanyi bwa mbere bwahitanye abantu benshi mu karere k’Ibiyaga Bigari.
Nibutse ko ubwo bwicanyi bwatangiye ku tariki ya 29 ukwezi kwa kane umwaka w’1972 ku butegetsi bwa Colonel Michel Micombero. Ni ukuvuga ko ku matariki nk’aya, muri uwo mwaka, mu Burundi vyarimwo gucika.
Iki kiganiro mwagiteguriwe na Ally Yussuf Mugenzi.
[akaririmbo ka BBC]
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Reka mpere i Toronto muri Canada kwa Emmanuel Nkurunziza uvuga ko ubwicanyi bwabaye ico gihe mu Burundi bwari ihonyabwoko ry’abatutsi, ariko akaba avuga ko ubwicanyi budakwiye kwitirirwa ubwoko, ati ah’ubwo bwitirirwe ababukoze:
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : “Dukurikije ingene amasezerano mpuzamakungu asigura ihonyabwoko ico ari co, igihe habaye gutegura kumara abantu, ubwoko, umurwi, canke igice cawo; hamaze kuba integuro --biribonekeza y’uko biba ari ihonyabwoko. Aho niho nahagaze.
Hanyuma ica kabiri navuze ni uko n’ibimenyetso bihari, kubera igihe c’irindwi na kabiri, harafashwe dufate nk’ikarata ya-y’Uburundi, aho umu Ministre yitwa Pascal Bubiriza, yari ya- yafyirifyitije agira ivyo bita, well, agira, a- hachura, afyirifyitiza aha- amakarata ahari intara zigwiriyemwo abatutsi. Ico ni kimwe.
Ica kabiri hariho n’abacitse kw’icumu benshi barakubwira bati twebwe, ico umuntu yovuga c’ukuri ni ko barica abatutsi bada- bakujeko, ariko ico nari navuze kindi ni uko ivyo bidasigura y’uko ata bahutu bishwe, ariko uburyo bishwe atari ubw’ihonyabwoko. Hanyuma kandi, ikindi cerekana y'uko ari ihonyabwoko, abacitse kw’icumu bamwe bamwe, hariho intara bene kubishira mu ngiro ivyo kumara ubwoko batabishize mu ngiro uko bari babirarikiwe.
Urumva umugambwe UBU umaze kubabwira uti ‘Bafate, mubafomoze n’inda iri mu nda muyikureyo, ntihagire n’uwuzosubira kumenya uko ubwoko bw’abatutsi bwasa; vyarashitse i Makamba, hariho umuntu ntashimye kuvuga izina ryiwe ngirango ukubera umutekano wiwe, ico gihe yari umwana akwije nk’imyaka nk’itanu, ngo bashitse i wabo bakica se bakica bakuru biwe bangahe, nyina yarabonye ko bariko bararondera cane cane abahungu; aranyarutsa aramwambika ikanju, kandi ukaba uzi ko mu Kirundi i wacu, ngirango no mu Rwanda ntibitanye, uwubandanya ubwoko, umuntu afata ubwoko bwa se, urumva kwari guhonya abatutsi urabona ko umwana bagira bati ni uwa se. Hanyuma kandi-
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Hanyuma wambwiye ko iyi Rapport Whitaker , warayisomye?
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Ego narayisomye cane-
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Ndetse waranayimpaye
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Ego
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Wewe uyisoma iyi Whitaker Report iravuga iki?
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Wewe urya mushakashatsi Whitaker Benjamin ico yavuga, yavuga ati ‘Ntibavuge ngo ihonyabwoko ni igihe abantu benshi bica abantu bakeyi, ihonyabwoko ntiryama rihama abantu bakeyi, ati nk’akarorero, we aca avuga ati ‘nk’abahutu b’i Burundi barishwe mw’ihonyabwoko ry’1972.' Ariko wabiraba ubwa mbere na mbere amahinyu nayitoye, bene kuyitegura, donc, preparartory committee canke preliminary research, ubwa mbere yaragizwe, harimwo, izina riranjanye, harimwo umukozi w’Umunyarwanda yakora muri United Nations. Ico ni kimwe. Hanyuma turazi aho intwaro y’Urwanda y’ico gihe yari ihagaze ku bibazo vy’Uburundi vy’ubwoko na politique, uwatwara ico gihe Kayibanda Gregoire aragirizwa n’abanyarwanda n’abarundi mbere bamuzi ko yari umuntu ashigikiye ivyiyumviro vy’uguhonya abatutsi. Urumva aho nta-
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Ariko aho, mbere gato, ibi vyavuzwe n’uriyamugabo wa gatatu avuga ati iyi Whitaker report iravuga ko ari genocide cyangwa ihonyabwoko ry’abahutu. Wewe uyisoma wabonye, ni ko bivuga?
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Ndabitandukanya kubiri. Uko Whitaker abivuga, asigura nushaka ati nakivuze ndakigarukako, ati si kuvuga y'uko ubwoko kugira buhonywe canke ihonyabwoko, ari abenshi baba bamara bake; ati na bakeyi bambe na benshi, barashobora kuba .. ‘victims,’ barashobora guhitanwa n’ihonyabwoko, aca atanga akarorero k’abahutu b’i Burundi aho avuga k intwaro yari ihari yagomvye kubahonya. Ariko nanje nkagira nti, sinshobora guhakana na gatoyi ko 1972 intwaro yari ihari yishe abahutu, abenshi ata co bazira, mu buryo butajanye n’amategeko. Ni birya nagize nti irashobora kwagirizwa, habaye itohozwa, crimes against humanity. Ariko ko bicaye bagategura bati ‘duhonye abahutu’ kuko urabona mw’ihonyabwoko, ikintu co gutegura, ni ikintu ngenderwako. Hatarimwo ugutegura, aho-o nta honyabwoko dubira kuvuga ko ririmwo; bidasigura ko ata vyaha vy’agahomerabunwa biba vyabaye.
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Kuko muri iki kiganiro ndaza kubonamwo n’umuhanga uri butandukanye ni ryari ubwicanyi buba ihonyabwoko, ni ryari ubwicanyi riba ivyaha vyo mu ntambara, ni ryari biba ivyaha vyibasira ubwoko muntu, hari umuntu uri butandukanye, ariko tujye kuri iyi report wenda tuyitindeho gato kuko na barya bagabo bayitinzeho gato, izana-izana impaka, amahirwe n’uko wewe wayisomye. Uyu Whitaker aravuga ko reta yahonyanze yashaka guhonyanga abahutu cangwa yahonyanze abahutu?
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Umuntu tumuvugiye uko ari, ntavuga ko yashaka, avuga ko yahonyanze. Urumva tuvuze ngo yashaka womenga ntabitomora, oya, aravuga ko yahonyanze, ni ko abivuga
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Muri izi mpaka,
Emmanuel Nkurunziza Aha..
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Kugira ngo abarundi babane neza, bashobore kwiyunga, urumva hakorwa iki?
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Ubwa mbere na mbere, ni ubutungane, ni kumenya ukuri ari kwo gutanga ubutungane; abantu bamaze kuronka ubutungane, baranywana, ni ukuvuga, barumvikana. Ahaaa na nta ryo nama nca ngaruka kuri irya nama bavuga, urya murwi bavuga ngo, wo kuvuga ukuri no kurekuriranira, biratangaje, nushaka birababaje kuko ubwa kera bakiwutangura, wari umurwi w’ubutungane, kuvuga ukuri no kurekuriranira. Eeh, ari Comite justice, Verite et reconciliation. Ingene bwakeye kabiri bagakuramwo ubutungane, ico-o, ni co kitubangamiye. Kuko urumva ata butungane, kuzovuga ngo “twaramenye ukuri," muga ukwo kuri umuntu tutamwita ukwo ari, umwicanyi yitwe umwicanyi, uwazize ubusa yitwe ko yazize ubusa, urumva ko, hazoguma hari agahaze. Kandi ko umbajije uti hakenewe iki, ikindi gikenewe ni na co nari naba- nabagirije, i wanyu mu kinyarwanda muvuga ngo kunenga, ejo bundi muri iki kiganiro nababwiye nti kubera iki mutita ikintu uko citwa? Bavuze bati ni inde yakoze ubwicanyi bw’abatutsi, dufate muri 1972, nararindiriye ko hagira ico bavuga aba batumire bawe, sinzi ko mwabuze umwanya, n’ico ari co –
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Wari ukeneye ko bagusobanurira iki?
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Nta co nari nkeneye, nashaka ko abantu bamenya y’uko uwatumyeko ko abahutu bahagurukira rimwe bakamara abatutsi, ni umugambwe witwa UBU, ni kuvuga Umugambwe w’Abakozi b’Uburundi. Wari urongoowe, ehh, ico gihe abawurongooye, nushaka, nta zina mfise, ariko inyandiko zarasohotse, aha mu gitabo caa Dupaquier na Chrétien, Burundi 1972: Au Bord des génocides, barawuvuga; umurundi Marc Manirakiza muri Burundi. De la Révolution au régionalisme. (1966-1976) na we nyene arabivuga; hanyuma kandi, ico ni ikintu nyamukuru, ibimenyetso vya UBU, ni ukuvuga izuba riseruka, ari yo République du Soleil bavuga y’uko ari igihugu kitagiramwo abatutsi, bwarakeye kabiri turayibona 1979, umugambwe UBU Ndadaye yarawunaguye mu Rwanda. Bukeye kabiri 1986, FRODEBU igitangura gukorera mu kinyegero, n’aho igiriye ahabona, icivugo cayo ni ‘Kanura Burakeye,’ hariko izuba riserutse. Iryo zuba riserutse, riri kuri idarapo ya … FROLINA, riri kw’idarapo ya PL ari yo Parti Liberal; riri kw’idarapo ya RPB. Mushigantahe Mugenzi, tuzi y'uko abo bantu bavuga bati twebwe duhagaze ku gateka k’umuhutu yari yarahonyanzwe, ego namba yari yarakumiriwe, ariko vya bimenyetso vy’1972, bikagaruka 1979, 1986, ntushobora kuvuga ngo ntituzi abakoze ivyo bintu. Mbere nushaka hariho umugambi w’uko baca bakora ‘République Unie du Soleil,’ yari guca ifatanya Urwanda n’Uburundi--
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Tukiri kuri icyo kibazo c’imishwarara y’izuba, wavuze ko hari n’ifaranga ryakozwe, igikoroto cy’ifaranga rimwe cyari cyakozwe bategura gushiraho iyo Republique du Soleil, kugirango ico gikoroto kizakoreshwe; ariko hari umuntu wigeze kumbwira ko ivyo bidashoboka kuko utanga commande yo gukora amafaranga ni Banque nationale, cyangwa banque y’igihugu. Banque nkuru y’igihugu ico gihe yategekwaga n’abatutsi, none bishoboka bite ko abo bahutu bategura ico gikoroto kiriho iyo mishwarara y’izuba kandi abari ku butegetsi bari abatutsi.
Eeeh, ni ikibazo ciza cane. Nushaka na je narakibajije, kuko nasomye mbere na mbere ikiganiro catanzwe kuri University of Sacramento, nibaza ko yari 2004; kiganiro c’abahinga bariko bavuga ivy’ihonyabwoko ryo mu Rwanda; hari umurundi yashikirije ikiganiro, yerekanyee paper yitwa eeh, ‘ La permanence des symboles de la République du Soleil au Burundi. Ico-o yaragisiguye aravuga ati ego ni ko, abategetsi bari bahari – ego ni ko, nimba hatwara umututsi, hariho abategetsi bahambaye bafise ibibanza bikomakomeye. Mu kanya gaheze mpejeje kukubwira abari nk’aba Ministres; n’aho boba bari bakeyi data wanje, barimwo. Urabaza n’abandi, nushaka umunsi wompamagara na je nokurangira abandi bari bahari ico gihe, bakubwira bati, mw’ibanki nkuru y’igihugu, iryo faranga rikorwa, n’ubundi abantu nta co bari bazi, ariko ryari ryatumweko ku ntego.
Mu kurangiza je mvuga nti kugira abarundi basubire kubaho mu mahoro banywane bumvikana, igikenewe ca mbere ni ubutungane. Ivyo kuvuga ngo ubwoko bunaka bwarishe, ngo 1972 abatutsi barishwe n’abahutu, canke ngo 1972 abahutu barishwe n’abatutsi, ivyo si ukuri na mba na gatoyi. Nibubahuke bavuge bati abatutsi barishwe n’abantu bararitswe n’Umugambwe w’Abakozi b’Uburundi UBU, bongere bavuge ukuri bati abahutu barishwe bararitswe n’abantu bavuye mu gisoda, nimba bari batumwe n’intwaro, ariko ivyo kuvuga ngo ni abatutsi babishe, si vyo na gatoyi. Nkavuga rero nti igihe umuntu azubahuka kuvuga ko hica umuntu, hica umurwi, hatica ubwoko; ukwo ni kwo kuri kuzoba kuzokiza Uburundi. Murakoze
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Ndagushimiye cyane Emmanuel Nkurunziza kuri ivyo bitekerezo, urakoze.
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Urakoze na we, ugire umunsi mwiza.
Dans cette interview menée en kirundi et diffusée le 14 mai 2011, Emmanuel Nkurunziza a parlé :
- de l’occultation du génocide contre les tutsi du Burundi,
- des auteurs du génocide de 1972 ( à savoir, l’organisation UBU -- Umugambwe w’Abakozi b’Uburundi -- ou Parti des Travailleurs du Burundi),
- de la persistance de l’idéologie et des symboles de l’UBU dans les formations FRODEBU, FROLINA, PALIPE AGAKIZA et RPB.
L’entretien a également porté sur l’exploitation partisane du fameux Rapport Whitaker , le cheval de bataille des négationnistes favorables aux génocidaires burundais. Il s'est clôturé par un appel à la culture de la vérité ainsi qu'au rejet des globalisations. En effet, les criminels burundais et leurs complices ont cette malheureuse habitude de faire croire que c'est toute une ethnie qui est responsable du génocide, alors que les auteurs des crimes sont des individus et des organisations. Comme Emmanuel Nkurunziza le rappelle si bien, c’est cette vérité qu’il faut oser dire si on veut remettre le Burundi sur la voie du droit.
CI- APRES LA TRANSCRIPTION DE L’INTERVIEW
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Mwaramutse amahoro bakunzi b’ikiganiro imvo n’imvano.
Ngo aho imfura zisezeraniye ni ho zihurira. Twabemereye ko kuri uyu wa gatandatu tuzabagezaho ikiganiro gikubiyemwo ibitekerezo ku kiganiro twabateguriye ubwo mu Brundi bibukaga ubwicanyi ndengakamere bwo mu mwaka w’1972. Muri ico kiganiro, harimwo Segatwa Fabien, umunyamategeko, uvuga ko ubwo bwicanyi bwari ihonyabwoko ry’abahutu; Evariste Ngayimpenda wemera ko ryari ihonyabwoko ry’abatutsi; na Aloys Batungwanayo, umunyambanga mukuru w’ishirahamwe rivuga ko riharanira kumenya ukuri ku vyabaye, gushingurana icubahiro abahitanywe n’ubwo bwicanyi, no guha buri murundi uburenganzira bwo kwibuka.
Hari abatwandikiye bamaze kwumva impaka zari hagati y’abatumire bacu babeshyuza cangwa bashigikira ivyavuzwe, ndetse banatanga amateka masha adafise aho yanditse kuri ubwo bwicanyi bwa mbere bwahitanye abantu benshi mu karere k’Ibiyaga Bigari.
Nibutse ko ubwo bwicanyi bwatangiye ku tariki ya 29 ukwezi kwa kane umwaka w’1972 ku butegetsi bwa Colonel Michel Micombero. Ni ukuvuga ko ku matariki nk’aya, muri uwo mwaka, mu Burundi vyarimwo gucika.
Iki kiganiro mwagiteguriwe na Ally Yussuf Mugenzi.
[akaririmbo ka BBC]
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Reka mpere i Toronto muri Canada kwa Emmanuel Nkurunziza uvuga ko ubwicanyi bwabaye ico gihe mu Burundi bwari ihonyabwoko ry’abatutsi, ariko akaba avuga ko ubwicanyi budakwiye kwitirirwa ubwoko, ati ah’ubwo bwitirirwe ababukoze:
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : “Dukurikije ingene amasezerano mpuzamakungu asigura ihonyabwoko ico ari co, igihe habaye gutegura kumara abantu, ubwoko, umurwi, canke igice cawo; hamaze kuba integuro --biribonekeza y’uko biba ari ihonyabwoko. Aho niho nahagaze.
Hanyuma ica kabiri navuze ni uko n’ibimenyetso bihari, kubera igihe c’irindwi na kabiri, harafashwe dufate nk’ikarata ya-y’Uburundi, aho umu Ministre yitwa Pascal Bubiriza, yari ya- yafyirifyitije agira ivyo bita, well, agira, a- hachura, afyirifyitiza aha- amakarata ahari intara zigwiriyemwo abatutsi. Ico ni kimwe.
Ica kabiri hariho n’abacitse kw’icumu benshi barakubwira bati twebwe, ico umuntu yovuga c’ukuri ni ko barica abatutsi bada- bakujeko, ariko ico nari navuze kindi ni uko ivyo bidasigura y’uko ata bahutu bishwe, ariko uburyo bishwe atari ubw’ihonyabwoko. Hanyuma kandi, ikindi cerekana y'uko ari ihonyabwoko, abacitse kw’icumu bamwe bamwe, hariho intara bene kubishira mu ngiro ivyo kumara ubwoko batabishize mu ngiro uko bari babirarikiwe.
Urumva umugambwe UBU umaze kubabwira uti ‘Bafate, mubafomoze n’inda iri mu nda muyikureyo, ntihagire n’uwuzosubira kumenya uko ubwoko bw’abatutsi bwasa; vyarashitse i Makamba, hariho umuntu ntashimye kuvuga izina ryiwe ngirango ukubera umutekano wiwe, ico gihe yari umwana akwije nk’imyaka nk’itanu, ngo bashitse i wabo bakica se bakica bakuru biwe bangahe, nyina yarabonye ko bariko bararondera cane cane abahungu; aranyarutsa aramwambika ikanju, kandi ukaba uzi ko mu Kirundi i wacu, ngirango no mu Rwanda ntibitanye, uwubandanya ubwoko, umuntu afata ubwoko bwa se, urumva kwari guhonya abatutsi urabona ko umwana bagira bati ni uwa se. Hanyuma kandi-
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Hanyuma wambwiye ko iyi Rapport Whitaker , warayisomye?
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Ego narayisomye cane-
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Ndetse waranayimpaye
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Ego
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Wewe uyisoma iyi Whitaker Report iravuga iki?
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Wewe urya mushakashatsi Whitaker Benjamin ico yavuga, yavuga ati ‘Ntibavuge ngo ihonyabwoko ni igihe abantu benshi bica abantu bakeyi, ihonyabwoko ntiryama rihama abantu bakeyi, ati nk’akarorero, we aca avuga ati ‘nk’abahutu b’i Burundi barishwe mw’ihonyabwoko ry’1972.' Ariko wabiraba ubwa mbere na mbere amahinyu nayitoye, bene kuyitegura, donc, preparartory committee canke preliminary research, ubwa mbere yaragizwe, harimwo, izina riranjanye, harimwo umukozi w’Umunyarwanda yakora muri United Nations. Ico ni kimwe. Hanyuma turazi aho intwaro y’Urwanda y’ico gihe yari ihagaze ku bibazo vy’Uburundi vy’ubwoko na politique, uwatwara ico gihe Kayibanda Gregoire aragirizwa n’abanyarwanda n’abarundi mbere bamuzi ko yari umuntu ashigikiye ivyiyumviro vy’uguhonya abatutsi. Urumva aho nta-
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Ariko aho, mbere gato, ibi vyavuzwe n’uriyamugabo wa gatatu avuga ati iyi Whitaker report iravuga ko ari genocide cyangwa ihonyabwoko ry’abahutu. Wewe uyisoma wabonye, ni ko bivuga?
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Ndabitandukanya kubiri. Uko Whitaker abivuga, asigura nushaka ati nakivuze ndakigarukako, ati si kuvuga y'uko ubwoko kugira buhonywe canke ihonyabwoko, ari abenshi baba bamara bake; ati na bakeyi bambe na benshi, barashobora kuba .. ‘victims,’ barashobora guhitanwa n’ihonyabwoko, aca atanga akarorero k’abahutu b’i Burundi aho avuga k intwaro yari ihari yagomvye kubahonya. Ariko nanje nkagira nti, sinshobora guhakana na gatoyi ko 1972 intwaro yari ihari yishe abahutu, abenshi ata co bazira, mu buryo butajanye n’amategeko. Ni birya nagize nti irashobora kwagirizwa, habaye itohozwa, crimes against humanity. Ariko ko bicaye bagategura bati ‘duhonye abahutu’ kuko urabona mw’ihonyabwoko, ikintu co gutegura, ni ikintu ngenderwako. Hatarimwo ugutegura, aho-o nta honyabwoko dubira kuvuga ko ririmwo; bidasigura ko ata vyaha vy’agahomerabunwa biba vyabaye.
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Kuko muri iki kiganiro ndaza kubonamwo n’umuhanga uri butandukanye ni ryari ubwicanyi buba ihonyabwoko, ni ryari ubwicanyi riba ivyaha vyo mu ntambara, ni ryari biba ivyaha vyibasira ubwoko muntu, hari umuntu uri butandukanye, ariko tujye kuri iyi report wenda tuyitindeho gato kuko na barya bagabo bayitinzeho gato, izana-izana impaka, amahirwe n’uko wewe wayisomye. Uyu Whitaker aravuga ko reta yahonyanze yashaka guhonyanga abahutu cangwa yahonyanze abahutu?
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Umuntu tumuvugiye uko ari, ntavuga ko yashaka, avuga ko yahonyanze. Urumva tuvuze ngo yashaka womenga ntabitomora, oya, aravuga ko yahonyanze, ni ko abivuga
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Muri izi mpaka,
Emmanuel Nkurunziza Aha..
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Kugira ngo abarundi babane neza, bashobore kwiyunga, urumva hakorwa iki?
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Ubwa mbere na mbere, ni ubutungane, ni kumenya ukuri ari kwo gutanga ubutungane; abantu bamaze kuronka ubutungane, baranywana, ni ukuvuga, barumvikana. Ahaaa na nta ryo nama nca ngaruka kuri irya nama bavuga, urya murwi bavuga ngo, wo kuvuga ukuri no kurekuriranira, biratangaje, nushaka birababaje kuko ubwa kera bakiwutangura, wari umurwi w’ubutungane, kuvuga ukuri no kurekuriranira. Eeh, ari Comite justice, Verite et reconciliation. Ingene bwakeye kabiri bagakuramwo ubutungane, ico-o, ni co kitubangamiye. Kuko urumva ata butungane, kuzovuga ngo “twaramenye ukuri," muga ukwo kuri umuntu tutamwita ukwo ari, umwicanyi yitwe umwicanyi, uwazize ubusa yitwe ko yazize ubusa, urumva ko, hazoguma hari agahaze. Kandi ko umbajije uti hakenewe iki, ikindi gikenewe ni na co nari naba- nabagirije, i wanyu mu kinyarwanda muvuga ngo kunenga, ejo bundi muri iki kiganiro nababwiye nti kubera iki mutita ikintu uko citwa? Bavuze bati ni inde yakoze ubwicanyi bw’abatutsi, dufate muri 1972, nararindiriye ko hagira ico bavuga aba batumire bawe, sinzi ko mwabuze umwanya, n’ico ari co –
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Wari ukeneye ko bagusobanurira iki?
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Nta co nari nkeneye, nashaka ko abantu bamenya y’uko uwatumyeko ko abahutu bahagurukira rimwe bakamara abatutsi, ni umugambwe witwa UBU, ni kuvuga Umugambwe w’Abakozi b’Uburundi. Wari urongoowe, ehh, ico gihe abawurongooye, nushaka, nta zina mfise, ariko inyandiko zarasohotse, aha mu gitabo caa Dupaquier na Chrétien, Burundi 1972: Au Bord des génocides, barawuvuga; umurundi Marc Manirakiza muri Burundi. De la Révolution au régionalisme. (1966-1976) na we nyene arabivuga; hanyuma kandi, ico ni ikintu nyamukuru, ibimenyetso vya UBU, ni ukuvuga izuba riseruka, ari yo République du Soleil bavuga y’uko ari igihugu kitagiramwo abatutsi, bwarakeye kabiri turayibona 1979, umugambwe UBU Ndadaye yarawunaguye mu Rwanda. Bukeye kabiri 1986, FRODEBU igitangura gukorera mu kinyegero, n’aho igiriye ahabona, icivugo cayo ni ‘Kanura Burakeye,’ hariko izuba riserutse. Iryo zuba riserutse, riri kuri idarapo ya … FROLINA, riri kw’idarapo ya PL ari yo Parti Liberal; riri kw’idarapo ya RPB. Mushigantahe Mugenzi, tuzi y'uko abo bantu bavuga bati twebwe duhagaze ku gateka k’umuhutu yari yarahonyanzwe, ego namba yari yarakumiriwe, ariko vya bimenyetso vy’1972, bikagaruka 1979, 1986, ntushobora kuvuga ngo ntituzi abakoze ivyo bintu. Mbere nushaka hariho umugambi w’uko baca bakora ‘République Unie du Soleil,’ yari guca ifatanya Urwanda n’Uburundi--
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Tukiri kuri icyo kibazo c’imishwarara y’izuba, wavuze ko hari n’ifaranga ryakozwe, igikoroto cy’ifaranga rimwe cyari cyakozwe bategura gushiraho iyo Republique du Soleil, kugirango ico gikoroto kizakoreshwe; ariko hari umuntu wigeze kumbwira ko ivyo bidashoboka kuko utanga commande yo gukora amafaranga ni Banque nationale, cyangwa banque y’igihugu. Banque nkuru y’igihugu ico gihe yategekwaga n’abatutsi, none bishoboka bite ko abo bahutu bategura ico gikoroto kiriho iyo mishwarara y’izuba kandi abari ku butegetsi bari abatutsi.
Eeeh, ni ikibazo ciza cane. Nushaka na je narakibajije, kuko nasomye mbere na mbere ikiganiro catanzwe kuri University of Sacramento, nibaza ko yari 2004; kiganiro c’abahinga bariko bavuga ivy’ihonyabwoko ryo mu Rwanda; hari umurundi yashikirije ikiganiro, yerekanyee paper yitwa eeh, ‘ La permanence des symboles de la République du Soleil au Burundi. Ico-o yaragisiguye aravuga ati ego ni ko, abategetsi bari bahari – ego ni ko, nimba hatwara umututsi, hariho abategetsi bahambaye bafise ibibanza bikomakomeye. Mu kanya gaheze mpejeje kukubwira abari nk’aba Ministres; n’aho boba bari bakeyi data wanje, barimwo. Urabaza n’abandi, nushaka umunsi wompamagara na je nokurangira abandi bari bahari ico gihe, bakubwira bati, mw’ibanki nkuru y’igihugu, iryo faranga rikorwa, n’ubundi abantu nta co bari bazi, ariko ryari ryatumweko ku ntego.
Mu kurangiza je mvuga nti kugira abarundi basubire kubaho mu mahoro banywane bumvikana, igikenewe ca mbere ni ubutungane. Ivyo kuvuga ngo ubwoko bunaka bwarishe, ngo 1972 abatutsi barishwe n’abahutu, canke ngo 1972 abahutu barishwe n’abatutsi, ivyo si ukuri na mba na gatoyi. Nibubahuke bavuge bati abatutsi barishwe n’abantu bararitswe n’Umugambwe w’Abakozi b’Uburundi UBU, bongere bavuge ukuri bati abahutu barishwe bararitswe n’abantu bavuye mu gisoda, nimba bari batumwe n’intwaro, ariko ivyo kuvuga ngo ni abatutsi babishe, si vyo na gatoyi. Nkavuga rero nti igihe umuntu azubahuka kuvuga ko hica umuntu, hica umurwi, hatica ubwoko; ukwo ni kwo kuri kuzoba kuzokiza Uburundi. Murakoze
Ally Yussuf Mugenzi : Ndagushimiye cyane Emmanuel Nkurunziza kuri ivyo bitekerezo, urakoze.
Emmanuel Nkurunziza : Urakoze na we, ugire umunsi mwiza.